On the other hand oil really seems to be a game quiting experience for a relevant fraction of would be factorians, witch generally indicates poor design. Oil is a game quitting experience because blue science is the first time a player has to start putting in serious effort to continue their factor...

The problem is now more about the measurement of success. At the moment we all have just opinions about what the change will accomplish. Facts will be available only after some time and a statistically relevant number of new users had a chance to play it. But will Wube remember to check the numbers...

There is another nice puzzle to solve now. It may be not so obvious at the first glance. You will find out that there is just not enough heavy and light oil available now, without the old basic oil processing. It will require setting up coal liquefaction which was not useful previously, unless you ...

Also, it's not just about making BOP easier/simpler. It's mainly about making it self-sufficient. You don't need to rush for AOP because the refinery is just getting stuck which is super annoying. It actually works, and to unlock more things, or to be more efficient, you get AOP. That relieves a lo...

But you need over twice as many fluid boxes to get more crude, not to mention about rail network load, so BOP may be not as UPS efficient compared to AOP as you may think. It was tested. That was pretty fast, do you have the test data somewhere to look at? https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?...

irbork wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:06 pm

But you need over twice as many fluid boxes to get more crude, not to mention about rail network load, so BOP may be not as UPS efficient compared to AOP as you may think.

It was tested.

The SF in Chemical Science wasn't added to make it feel useful, but to delay the moment when you're fully backed up on LO or HO. Since there isn't anymore of these in Basic Processing, removing SF from this recipe is an obvious + 0.17 Science FFF : Electric mining drill replaced with Solid fuel, gi...

V453000 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:52 pm

complexity, tedium, pacing

I literally refuted all three of those even being issues caused by the previous oil system in a very lengthy post.

If you aren't against mods: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Pre0-17-60Oil I'm not against mods in general, I'm against mods that fix bad design decisions. That is pretty good then. You will have to play the game as it is designed. After a playthrough you will see that professional game designers know...

As 17.60 is out sigh of disappointment I'm 100% sure most of us will eventually don't mind this change. :) IIRC, I was disappointed at 2 changes in the game : removal of the separate tanks in the fluid wagon, and removal of the pickaxe tools. But in the long term, I have to admit this had 0 effect ...

DanGio wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:37 pm

As 17.60 is out

sigh of disappointment

The research gui has come a long way since 0.16, I don't think it will be difficult for new players to find 'advanced oil processing' when they figure out there's something to oil they're missing and go looking for it. I do think there is perhaps advances to be made in the science using up more oth...

I do understand your others points, this one i'm a bit torn, like yeah adding tanks is the legit way to do, this is not a cheese and basically is integral part of why there is a problem in the first place, how many tanks will be needed ??? o damn i need to fix that thing i can't continue adding mor...

Providing a way to understand why later you will need/appreciate cracking, is an effect of having the player understanding why the ref output blocks. The early multiple-output receipe has been reconsidered between fff304 and 305, where in the latest , one option no longer involve a single input/sin...

IMHO, they search a solution, where you don't need tanks to compensate in the first place. If all oil products could be used properly, i think the issue wouldn't be there. Sure, solid fuel can be used to compensate, but its not that obvious and blue science only uses a fraction of it. We also can d...

Practical experience suggests that it is, in fact. See below. I would agree this is something has has to be overcome to launch a rocket. But is it necessarily something that has to be overcome at the exact same time as overcoming all the other challenges that oil processing presents? Yes, because a...

(well-thought-out post that makes several new points) How come none of the developers have responded to this post? I think it brings up a ton of good points that haven't really been made yet. We can't expect devs to answer every post in such a long thread on a sunday. Also, as enjoyable to read it ...

While on the point of ratios: can we please change the new AOP recipe so that we are not magically creating more fluid? I know we don't want to always worry about realism at every stage, but at some point, let's be sure we aren't moving from playable semi-reality into the land of fantasy. The new r...

I don't understand. Honestly, Oil isn't a problem. Multiple outputs isn't complicated or difficult to understand. Most people with a problem solving mind, and a mind for how recipes works, as they should have after 10 minutes in the game, will quite easily understand that if the refinery can't push ...

I always use the same BP for miners, it works very well until doing something like full bots or direct-drill-to-traincar. 4xMiners.png Inserting into underground belts? That's blashpemy in my factory! I'll typically have 1 spacing between everything, empty rows get medium power poles behind every 2...